Delta Force Barracks Forums

AMERICAN HERO

BLIND~AL=DS= - 4-24-2004 at 03:48 PM

Steptoe - 4-24-2004 at 06:25 PM

So just because he was a sportsman before going into the services..does that make him better, a bigger hero, than the rest of the servicemen killed in a ambush.
Or does the news just sell more newspapers cause he was a public figure before hand....
Theres no way, I would honour him over and above the rest, to the detriment of the other guys.
Its an insult to the the ordinary Joe Public, who joins up, serves with as much , if not more honour, and dies.

The Bishop - 4-24-2004 at 07:54 PM

blimey, I'm agreeing with steptoe.

here here.

Hornet1958 - 4-24-2004 at 08:24 PM

Sorry but who is Pat Tillman!...
I have a lot of respect for those service men who put their lives in danger for us, no matter who he is..Remember they r the ones who face death every day. Wondering if today is the day that a bullet has their name on it..And yes I will stand down and hold my fire for 1 min..Total respect and a prayer for all those that have fallen (British/American)

ATi - 4-24-2004 at 10:11 PM

Im watching the news at the moment and apparently this man was a good american football player whom was offered a 'big multi-million dollar deal' to play for some team. I strongly agree with Steptoe . Just because he was a good sportsman doesnt make him a hero, he was brave for fighting for his country yes but so is every other man and woman out there. I would not though call him a 'True American Hero' at all, this man was in the publics eye before the war - this is the only reason all this 'fuss' is being made - its unfair to praise him over the others that have fallen, fought and still are as I type this.

GHOSTRIDER~RSU~ - 4-24-2004 at 10:27 PM

Pat Tilman is somebody that the American public knows about so he is a person whom they can rally around. just like Jessica Lynch was in Iraq. Pat just symbolizes a guy who gave up everything
to server his country we have people here that claim only poor minorites jouin the military now here come a man that was not poor and had achieved the American dream and gave it all up to serve so I guess that makes him a Hero.

Commando*Bo$* - 4-25-2004 at 12:42 AM

in war a hero is defined as someone who goes up and beyond the call of duty in combat, a hero isnt somebody who joins the military and gave up a sports schloarschip, ive seen the news reports to and i think what tillman did was good, but it doesnt make him a hero, the real heroes are the ones who are still buried over there (France,Belgium) that never came back, the people in 9/11 are heroes becuase they gave there lives for another human being, police officers are heroes becuase they risk there lives for the sake of others,

Tillman in my books isnt really a hero sure he gave up an NFL contract to fight, how about the whole other lot? the MOH winners how come they don't get any televised moments? how about the other million and a half soldiers who like Tillman gave up there dreams so they could fight? so far he and Lynch are the only two soldiers to be proclaimed as heroes, but you have to ask yourself where are other million and a half soldiers who died keeping freedom dont the nam vets get called heroes aswell, or WW2? like you said on the Freedom post, where is your dad on tv? how come he isnt proclaimed a hero, your dad must have given up something a dream or something just like tillman, but he isnt on tv he doesnt get a 15mins of fame.

GHOSTRIDER~RSU~ - 4-25-2004 at 01:07 AM

Both my Dad and I both served our country and neither of us wanted or need regognition from the general public. Pat never asked for all this coverage in fact after he decided to go into the service he refused to give any interviews with the press. Pat is a Hero as is all of the people in the Military who volunteered to serve their country.

Commando*Bo$* - 4-25-2004 at 01:14 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by GHOSTRIDER~RSU~
Both my Dad and I both served our country and neither of us wanted or need regognition from the general public. Pat never asked for all this coverage in fact after he decided to go into the service he refused to give any interviews with the press. Pat is a Hero as is all of the people in the Military who volunteered to serve their country.


but no other soldiers wanted media coverage and the media never bothered them, how come they make such a big deal with tillman? so far in all the news cast and so on (execpt Jack Cafferity's) no one has ever said anything about military soldiers being heroes

Steptoe - 4-25-2004 at 07:39 AM

1/ We in NZ know who he is...do u guys know who Carlos Spenser is?
2/ he could afford to make the choice
3/today is ANZAC Day...for all Aussies And Kiwis...also a special day for Crete, Greece, Turkey, respected in France, Belgium.

Now do u think it would be bad taste for me to make a post like that above for a Kiwi or Aussie solder on the dawn of venterians day, or 9/11

This is a international site, with that in mind, some counties should show respect to others here and not assume just cause they have had a few bombs go off or servicemen overseas, that other countries also have theres.

Today we pay homage to our solders, who not only died, but who have served in more conflicts and wars than any other country in the world.

-US-Ranger1776 - 4-27-2004 at 12:29 AM

I couldnt load the picture, but I could read. "AMERICAN HERO". That he was. He gave up what some people would sacrifice crazy things for. A huge multi-million dollar contract, which would have made him grow in popularity and become even more wealthy. Just because he was a good sportsman doesnt make him a hero, youre right, but the fact that he gave up all the was living for to fight for us. He joined the Rangers, some of the best in the world, and fought proudly and died proudly.
I didnt see anyone say that his sports career made him a hero, its his American spirit and courage that makes him a hero.

---remember Pat Tillman

KA-Sweeper - 4-27-2004 at 02:50 AM

There are alot of heros over there...
Loss of a fellow Coastie over the weekend…
This is the first Coast Guards “Combat Death” since Vietnam.



Article: http://www.newsday.com/news/local/longisland/ny-libruc0426,0...

Fair Winds and Following Seas… Petty Officer Nathan Bruckenthal


Semper Paratus

Bongo - 4-27-2004 at 02:55 AM

One thing you fail to realize about this great man is that he turned down an interview with CNN news corrispondent Wolf Blitzer when he flew to the region to interview him. Pat Tillman didn't want to be treated any differently than the next Ranger.

If any of you had a contract worth 3.6 million dollars I highly doubt you'd turn it down to make 18K and put your life on the line. He did and he is a hero in my eyes.

Not to take away anything from those who lost their lives in the war on terror or any other conflict but this man truely was a one of a kind. Charactor is the only word that comes to mind.

I will never forget those who have died for my freedoms and I will never forget Pat Tillman either.

ATi - 4-27-2004 at 04:05 AM

Whether he was a good sportsman, had turned down an interview with CNN, turned down a contract worth big $$$ it doesnt make him any different to any other fighter out there in my eyes. What he did was very patriotic Bongo - but there are still patriots out there fighting, and there are already patriots that have fallen. This man should be no different in his praise.

-US-Ranger1776 - 4-27-2004 at 05:14 AM

It does make him different. If you ask everyone in the armed forces why they are there, you would not receive the same answer. "Education". "Leadership skills". Stupid things like that, they dont really care, its just using the military to get what they want, and then when you hear about some loser who ran to Canada scared he would go to Iraq, then you know what it is about. Pat truely cared, thats the difference between him and all the others.

Is A Hero

scarn150 - 4-27-2004 at 06:58 AM

He is a hero but not because he gave up a multi-million dollar contract. He is a hero for the same reason that all men and women serving in the services are heros. They are putting there life on the line to protect others freedom and safety. He is not a hero because he gets coverage on the news and others don't get as much, but he is a hero because he died for what he believed in and that was FREEDOM.

Commando*Bo$* - 4-27-2004 at 07:29 AM

my last post wasnt about questioning others in the armed services, but to question why people forget about the others, as i said before almost 10 billion or so men, women and child laid down thier dreams (some of whom like the TML of 1942 (the whole team joined the same regiment)(only 5 returned))yes he laid down his life and gave up a sports scholarship and instead joined the Rangers, if you look around you look inside any other military wheter he/her's an American, Chinese, Britihs, Australian or New Zealander , you will see people who are Farm boys, people who were once were in trounle with the law, people who were once Rugby players or baseball. im no stranger to the honor code of the military heck ive studied it.

my main intention was to question why people seem to forget and why people seem to think on former football player was an hero when so many others like him gave up there lives and put thier lives on hold for our freedom, if you ask any soldiers and ask him "do you think of yourself a hero, do you think you make a differnce" there answer is going to be "you see the crosses and the dead there" there the heroes. Yes i am also aware that he declined press coverage which is good for a soldier yes i'm also aware that he joined after 9/11, but so did others, yet there names arent known and people seem to care about one soldier a former football player who took the army instead of the NFL and gave up a career, but so did many others, most of these soldiers were former high school foot ball players, yet there names arent known and people don't care. i.e. when i ask people do you know Col. Nicklin (he too was an CFL player, who gave up his contract and died in Germany, he too didnt want any press around him)

I guess some took it the wrong way saying "do you not see that many people gave up there lives"

one more thing, im planning to join the army myself in a year and a half (16 is the age to join), some say i should just be a demographer(becuase i got good grades in the people portion of the course) or some professer, some even question me, i like many others want to give something back to my country, i want to give something back to the country im proud to live, in. i could really care less about money or greed.

-US-Ranger1776 - 4-27-2004 at 09:36 AM

There are many heroes that are not known. This is normal. Why Jessica Lynch was so popular? Was it the Army's doing? A promotional stunt? Maybe. It happens all the time, some random person receives publicity and the other does not. But sometimes the other doesnt give a [Censored].

Not A Hero???

Messenjah - 4-28-2004 at 03:50 AM

He is a hero, not more and not less then any others who died in war. Just remember this...

There is no such thing as a live war hero...

The only heros in war, are the ones who don't come home.

Steptoe - 4-28-2004 at 07:04 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by Messenjah*SH*
He is a hero, not more and not less then any others who died in war. Just remember this...

There is no such thing as a live war hero...

The only heros in war, are the ones who don't come home.


Thats rubbish, and a insult to all those ordinary blokes with families,children, jobs, futures, who joined up to defend their country...espec those from WW1 WW2
And if the logic is applied to those police, firefighters ppl who survived 9/11......
well I just refrain from finishing further comments on your post....I think the general drift where im going is obvious.

I do see where your going...

Messenjah - 4-30-2004 at 03:35 AM

But i DID say "hero's in WAR"...the firefighters, police, etc. ARE heros...i was just talking about the WARTIME hero's...and believe me...any vet you ask what a hero is will give you what i said...cause thats where i got it. but oh well, no harm ment to those who did survive...you fought, you lived, you made your counrty proud! < S > to all of you who made it back...

one more thing Steptoe...if they fought for their country, families, and themselves...then they shouldn't be called Ordinary Blokes...

Steptoe - 4-30-2004 at 07:53 AM

My father, grandfather, uncles, cusons and friends served, died, where PoWs, servived, and are just ordinary blokes, who did what they thought was right for their families and country....thats what a ANZAC ordinary bloke is like and does.
The ordinary bloke does it cause it needs to be, not for glory, not to be a hero, not to be famous, or medals or blow his trumpet or have others blow it for them.
I realy dont think that u guys in the States realy understand the quiet modesty, humility, quiet respect of the ANZAC ordinary bloke.

Commando*Bo$* - 4-30-2004 at 11:03 AM

just looked up bloke it meant ordinary man, step is right these were ordianry boys (most werent even 18), these soldiers put down there lives so we as in the world to have a better chance to live in a free from terrorization, free from oppresion and just do what we can do now.

step is right here in North America we could care less about those ordinary troopers who laid down there lives so we can do what we want, when they themeslves didnt have a chance of completing there own lives. In small countries like New Zealand and Vietnam they honor there fallen soldiers and those who stood up against the enemy, students (im assuming) learn about there grand fathers, uncles, dads, brothers and sisters deed in the time of conflict, here in North America we dont stop to think about it, we dont ask why or we dont want to learn the sacrifices made.

FDR once said
"Those who have long enjoyed such privileges as we enjoy forget in time that
men have died to win them."

and Winston Churchill after the battle of britian. this one really hit me

"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few."

"People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

George Orwell


the regular soldier in battle fights for one thing (maybe 2) but LTG. Gen. Hal Moore put it the best

"The ordinary soldier, doesnt fight for mom, apple pie the flag or even what some president says on t.v, they fight for each other" (ordianry soldier wasnt it the orginal had American but it doesnt matter)

and by a night stalker pilot

The courage of 100 men
Is what he holds inside,
He does it for his fellow man
He does it for his pride.

Amidst all the heroes
He does it not for fame,
Bravery is his legacy

note: if you dont know what the night stalkers are, there the 160th SOAR (Special Operations Avaition Regiment) or Night Stalkers for short there named that becuase of their ability to master the night, they can fly at night as if it were plain day light.




pixeld - 5-1-2004 at 07:03 AM

i think that all the members of the armed forces are heros..not just one person who played sports..... i have all the respect in the world for the members of armed forces

GHOSTRIDER~RSU~ - 5-1-2004 at 07:09 PM

I just read that pat tilman was awarded the silver star he got it for going back into the ambush zone and rescuing the othe group of rangers that were pinned down by the ambush . It seems that he ordered his squad to return and flank the ambushers to help the other group out of the ambush thus saving a lot of lives at the expense of his own.Pat lived up to the ranger creed of no ranger left behind.

ATi - 5-1-2004 at 07:22 PM

I feel that some people are taking what Steptoe, myself and others have said. I feel he was a good man for defending his country, and if that is true Ghost it makes him a true patriot. That takes alot of courage to do and he deserves recognition for that.
However I stand by Step - this guy is no more of a hero than any other man/woman fighting out there at present or any man/woman that has fallen. In Iraq, WWI,WWII, Nam etc, they are all people that have laid down their lives, they have all given up something. Who's to say how much this 'deal' meant to Patt, was not matched by the how much something else meant to that other soldier?
Point Im trying to make is ok he gave up that deal to defend his country - but ordinary men/women gave up things too, lives, families, jobs etc. His 'deal' should not be looked at as being more important than a family or something which I feel it has. (When I say ordinary I mean those that were not in the public eye, normal working people - not celebs etc.) He has been hyped too much.

Commando*Bo$* - 5-2-2004 at 12:57 AM

Quote:
Originally posted by TradeMark™

Point Im trying to make is ok he gave up that deal to defend his country - but ordinary men/women gave up things too, lives, families, jobs etc. His 'deal' should not be looked at as being more important than a family or something which I feel it has. (When I say ordinary I mean those that were not in the public eye, normal working people - not celebs etc.) He has been hyped too much.


thank you trade thats what i was trying to say on my previous 3 posts.

again ghost he got an Silver Star for saving a group of rangers, and yes by far he did live up to the creed, but so did 60,000 others and yet people dont care, if i read down the names of 6 silver star winners ,9/10's you wont even know who the person is.

ATi - 5-2-2004 at 01:26 AM

My great uncle is over from the US at the moment tending to family matters, he was here this morning and asked me if I still play DF, want to join the RAF when I'm older and pretty much just catching up, havent seen him in a year or so. (He is ex Air Force, British and US) If he had seen this thread he would have have been either upset or very angry, because he was telling me a good friend of his was killed in Iraq a while ago. Try telling him that this Patt bloke was a 'true hero' - the circumstances of my uncles friends death are unclear right now because he didnt really want to talk about it that much understandably. Perhaps he didnt go back for his fellow squad mates or anything like the footballer did but he laid down his life for his country. He leaves a wife, 1 child and the rest of his family.
Now I could start a new thread claiming him to be a 'True American Hero' couldnt I? But I wont, he was brave to go into battle as was Patt. This celebrity is no more of a hero than my uncles friend.

A.Bullet - 5-3-2004 at 01:36 AM

Man.. you guys are all out of line in my opinion..

FFS.. the guys obviously a hero.. you guys are just pissed cause every soldier isnt given the same level of media coverage.. which is funny considering you act as if your pissed your 'heros' dont get the same attention.

No one said.. The only hero ever.. and No one said.. This is a 'true' hero and all others are false..

Crimony.. of course hes got some attention by the media - he was an NFL star .. people knew him.. and it was News when he left the NFL.. if an NFL player died in his sleep it would have made the news.. if you say differnt well get your head outta your ass..


And BTW.. many outside the US may not realize it.. but the majority of our military DOES NOT enter to go off and fight a war.. or to be patriotic or to protect our country.

They join for self motivating reasons such as a free college education or to see the world.. the vast majority in our armed forces join EXPECTING never to see combat and this has been shown by the problems the US military has had recruiting since we have been at war in Iraq.

Pat Tillman (and many others) chose after 9/11 to join. . BECAUSE we were at war.. and in a country where the vast majority of citizens are figuring out how to avoid service I think that in itself can be considered heroic.. but when you consider he gave up litterally the chance of a lifetime (to play in the NFL) to earn 18K a year and sleep in the dirt.. and then died saving the lives of other sldiers.. keep in mind most of our soldiers made the choice between working at burger king for $7 an hour.. or joining the military and getting free college tuition.. you may not like it.. but its the truth.. and to compare thier giving up working flipping burgers to dropping a multi year multimillion dollar NFL contract is a load of horsehit..

Thats besides the fact that the ENTIRE time since he jointd the military he denied ANY media access and asked the military to not make a big deal of his service.. and just have him serve as an 'ordinary bloke'.

He never sought out glory .. or press.. he never sought to use the entire thing to make himself do better though he surely could have.

This man gave the ultimate sacrifice for his country.. and for the rest of the world.. cause let me remind you this was in Afghanistan not Iraq.. and he was fighting the terrorism that could be in your streets or mine tomorrow..

This man was as much a hero as the many men who have fallen in battle before him and as much as the many who have fought bravely and returned.

Anyhow.. its not due to what he gave up for a career.. its cause of his courage under fire.. his selfless dedication to saving his fellow soldiers and for making the ultimate sacrifice in some armpit of the world so that people like you and I may go to sleep safely at night..

The career he gave up simply was what made him noteworthy enough for the media to pay attention and cover the story of this guy. who I think is a hero in the company of many more heroes like him.

To the above speach...

Messenjah - 5-14-2004 at 08:31 AM





HEAR HEAR!