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Author: Subject: The Long and Short of it.
CapnJSnow
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[*] posted on 1-24-2008 at 08:21 AM
The Long and Short of it.


I'm all about the map making. After many hours of watching boats drive on land, wishing there were more objects and buildings with ACTUAL doors, one tends to ask: "Is Joint Ops mapmaking better?"

So the real question is... "well is it?" I can see the graphics are better, and there seem to be more objects, decorations, etc. I just wonder if they improved the A.I. or waypoint processes to be more comprehensive.

To those who've done both and lived to tell the tales, any opinions to share?
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[*] posted on 1-24-2008 at 11:09 AM


IMO the AI in JO hasn't been improved that much over the older game engines. JO really shines in the large scale battles of two opposing human teams going at it. It's not to say that coop missions against the AI can't be fun; just don't expect the JO AI be as good as the ones found in FEAR or GRAW.

I use the JO MED mission editor, along with the IC mod, and there are a ton of buildings, decorations, vehicles and objects to use. Including several items from prior games (DF2 and BHD). Players can get in and out of the vehicles in JO, and even drive/fly around. But vehicle doors don't open or close. As to the buildings, there's only so many buildings that have an inside. And very few that allow the player to open a door. Unlike a game like Rainbow 6 Raven Shield or Vegas where the player can crack a door open and peak inside.

Just about anyone can make a JO mission with the MED or NILE mission editors. But to make a good map will require a fair amount of time and effort. So, you ready to dive in?:)
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CapnJSnow
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[*] posted on 1-25-2008 at 10:28 PM


Well I thought I was so I splurged the twenty bones and then downloaded the Nile and JOMED files, so ensued the becoming pizzed.

I prefer JOMED because it's the style with which I am familiar. However EVERY time I tried to export it would never show up on my Deathmatch selection screen.

I added a player start. I even tried the A Bullets version and BHD:JO converter, but I never saw my level as a selection in the game. All it is is a bunch of vehicles and characters set to coward.

I also downloaded Take Down and Die Hard npz files and neither of them showed up either. Any thoughts?
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[*] posted on 1-25-2008 at 11:49 PM


As with any Nova Maps, whatever the version, the AI only does what the mapper says...

You put in the effort with events and wac files, you'll have better AI...

People tend to just dump the AI on the map, and expect them to be intelligent..news is..you get crappy AI, and the players blame Nova!!

You need to think for them, by setting events and wac's that will change their behaviour depending on what the human players do..

I see missions with like 8 events, one for each win condition..that's it..

Look at a Nova Stock mission, you might have over a hundred events, and a huge wac file, because the mapper has setup the AI.

A good mission might take a month to create, some cowboys make a CoOp in a day, and call themselves mappers..

As Jonathan says, Jo was really designed as a Human v's Human game, with SP and CoOP a side line..

AB's med was never completed because DFX was released with a Full med, so, don't bother using it.









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Jonathan
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[*] posted on 1-26-2008 at 06:37 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by CapnJSnow
Well I thought I was so I splurged the twenty bones and then downloaded the Nile and JOMED files, so ensued the becoming pizzed.

I prefer JOMED because it's the style with which I am familiar. However EVERY time I tried to export it would never show up on my Deathmatch selection screen.

I added a player start. I even tried the A Bullets version and BHD:JO converter, but I never saw my level as a selection in the game. All it is is a bunch of vehicles and characters set to coward.

I also downloaded Take Down and Die Hard npz files and neither of them showed up either. Any thoughts?


Go here and d/l the JO MED for all versions: JO Typhoon Rising, Escalation, IC mod.
http://www.dfbarracks.com/downloads/index.php?action=df&fid=...

Be sure to read the MED manual. There's some good stuff in there. Just be aware that the manual doesn't cover every aspect of the MED editor. But there's still enough in there to get you going. If you don't see it in the manual, then post your questions.

To change a mission to coop, go to top menu bar and select Edit, General Info, and when the window pops up, select Coop from the drop down list (map type) on left side. Ref page 10 of the MED manual.

The MED MIS file types are what you work with to create/edit a mission. When you export your mission, it creates the BMS files which is used by JO to actually play your mission. NILE uses NPJ and NPZ. You can't open Nile files with the MED. And I'm not an expert on NILE, but I believe that you can't open the NPZ file to view even with NILE.

If you want to see mission goals, grouping, events, area triggers and other features in an MED MIS file, then d/l OpCleanSweep.
http://www.dfbarracks.com/mapdb/index.php?action=dm&mid=1645...

Hope this helps and keep at it.
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CapnJSnow
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[*] posted on 1-26-2008 at 07:20 AM
Deathmatch til I die...uh get fragged.


Very useful link as I will download the program instead of continuing to sift through the selections of editors.

I simply placed those npz files into the program folder and thought it would find them on it's own. Is that the way it should work, as it has with the last 4 games?

Basically I open the JOMED and then make some things, cars, people, huts, then I save the file as a bms as I always did with BHDMED. Then I go into JO:TR and click on LAN and then HOST and then DEATHMATCH, but my file currently entitled "WTF" is not there.

I edited the general information to have everything it needs, added waypoints for start, and picked a terrain. It saves the bms just fine, but I just can't see it in the game.

I'll download the one you linked and see what becomes of it. :)

I should say (possibly exiling myself) that I really only care about LAN based deathmatches. Call me a Connell junkie, but the most dangerous game to me is more exciting than accomplishing missions.

Thanks.
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Jonathan
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[*] posted on 1-26-2008 at 01:02 PM


Yes, you only need to put the JO mission files in the root dir of your JO game.

As to your mission not showing up under JO, did you give it a mission name in the General pop-up window and set the map type to Death match? Also, ensure that you are not in the Training menu vs LAN when looking for your mission.
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CapnJSnow
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smile.gif posted on 1-27-2008 at 08:28 PM


Changed it to TEAM Deathmatch and it showed up in that selection.
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