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Author: Subject: How to successfully respawn the enemy in a mission
Jonathan
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 06:57 AM
How to successfully respawn the enemy in a mission


I've made coop and single player games (BHD & DFX) with respawning A/I. The problem though is how to hide the respawning of the A/I from the player's view.

Yesterday, I d/l and played a top rated coop missions for JOE. But was amazed to see the A/I spawning less than 100meters away from a PSP and out in the open. And the enemy kept respawning, and respawning and respawning... I lost track of the number of times the A/I respawned in the same spot. While I can understand the need to respawn the enemy, it sort of breaks the realistic setting of JO to just do it out in the open in view of the player.

In my user created missions, I've tried to respawn the enemy behind some buildings, out of view, and then have the A/I follow some waypoints to where the player should be. Now I'm attempting to make some JO single/coop missions, but was wondering if anyone else had some better methods for respawning the A/I?

One possilble solution that might work is to use a building where the A/I could respawn in, exit from, and then engage the player. And the player couldn't enter this building. But I haven't investigated it enough to see if it's do-able.

Any thoughts, suggestions?
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housemouse
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 11:17 AM


Do you mean if the stupid things respawn behind a building it would make the game more realistic or interesting? To who? Like Patton said, I hate fighting for the same territory twice. You stated my and many others biggest complaint. "they kept respawning and respawning and respawning''.
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 11:56 AM


housemouse, don't get your knickers in a twist..

Yeah, sure, we all hate those respawns right behind you..or on the last spawn point you took..and already cleared..etc..

When used correctly, they enable a mapper to create a good map without having to use excessive AI numbers..or events..

So, if you want reinforcements to gradually filter in, then a respawn is the ideal thing..so, as Jonathan suggests, this should happen out of the view of the player..

When misused, the are the thorn in my butt...as they are yours..

My pet hate is..50 respawning snipers, that roam freely over a map..!!

Lets get real..maybe someone out there knows the ratio of snipers to grunts..I would think it would be more like 1 in 200...

EE









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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 12:34 PM
agree


am calming down a bit...lol About the ratio of snipers to grunts...total agreement..we don't even allow sniper rifles or the notorious 'noob tube' in our weapons selection.
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[*] posted on 2-4-2006 at 01:43 PM
A Hot Topic


I agree with both Jonathan and EE Re-spawning if use correctly can enhance a map......it brings in the unexpected element...

I am currently building a DFX map and I have used respawns to hopefully enhance the play all these respawns are out of the sight of the player....

Mapmakers need to be realistic with their game play IE Defined game goals such as destroy this item or kill this person...not generalised goals as destroy all A.I etc...especially when you have roaming A.I as you have in Jo and DFX. If you miss an A.I that you needed to kill then the game will not finish and gamers get frustrated and leave the game because they can't finish it.

Mapper also need to be realistic in choosing the types of A.I..... IE not 50 snipers or rocket launchers.....It makes the game so unrealistic.

Well that's my thoughts

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mr tarzan
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[*] posted on 2-5-2006 at 02:03 AM
Re-spawners.........nah


Never used them. Never will.


mr tarzan :D :o
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perigrine falcon
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[*] posted on 2-5-2006 at 04:30 AM


ive had an idea for making a map with visable re-spawners that would fit the map theme have a graveyard and tombs where the BGs keep coming out of the ground like zombies i have a BHD graveyard map but never made it a COOP or SP map theres custom tombs, crypts, and tombstones in it geiststadt
your welcome to use the map if you want to make a SP/COOP out of it using this idea i would really like to see it







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Jonathan
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[*] posted on 2-6-2006 at 04:31 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by housemouse
Do you mean if the stupid things respawn behind a building it would make the game more realistic or interesting? To who? Like Patton said, I hate fighting for the same territory twice. You stated my and many others biggest complaint. "they kept respawning and respawning and respawning''.


If you were to engage 100 tangos on a map, and didn't know that 90% of them were respawning, ....

I can make a map with 100 tangos, assign them to groups, and have them attack the player thru a series of events. Make it appear as if waves of them were attacking. After the battle has been won, all the player knows is that he faced 100 of them.

Or I could drop 10 tangos on the map, set them to respawn 10x, and still simulate waves of them attacking. If done correctly, the player wouldn't know the difference.

There are pros and cons to the two methods above. One issue that I've struggled with in making maps that I would enjoy, is the total number of tangos to engage. I want big epic battles. Meaning lots and lots of bad guys. But the game engine doesn't like more that 255 A/I (if I recall correctly). There's other pros and cons of using respawn in this game engine, but that's for another thread.

As to fighting for the same ground, Patton might not have liked it, but war is hell.
:D

We both agree that mappers are using respawn without regard to realism. I converted one of my single player missions to coop, played it, and realized while a teleport of enemy A/I (2 tangos) worked in single player game, it failed big time in coop. Why? Cause I forgot that in coop a teammate couldn enter the bunker to trigger the teleport event, and that another player could be standing outside near the teleport marker and suddenly see 2 tangos appear. :(

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[*] posted on 2-6-2006 at 04:36 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by perigrine falcon
ive had an idea for making a map with visable re-spawners that would fit the map theme have a graveyard and tombs where the BGs keep coming out of the ground like zombies i have a BHD graveyard map but never made it a COOP or SP map theres custom tombs, crypts, and tombstones in it geiststadt
your welcome to use the map if you want to make a SP/COOP out of it using this idea i would really like to see it


My daughter and I are on a big Resident 4 kick on the GameCube right now. Can't get enough of zombie killing with the shotgun. :D

I might have to reinstall my copy of BHD and check out your map. Did you include the MIS file with it?
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[*] posted on 2-6-2006 at 05:25 AM


i dont think so but you can use one of the converters BMS to MIS converter BMS to MIS converter






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[*] posted on 4-15-2006 at 09:59 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by mr tarzan
Never used them. Never will.


mr tarzan :D :o



Does teleporting qualify as spawning, even if you don't use a spawn command?


In my last JOE map I was forced to use 50 bg's twice. The first bg's you kill are teleported to the last wp (echo).


There's a period of time between an AI is killed and till he vanishes. If you teleport him before he vanishes there will be no need to spawn him, he will spawn when he reaches the teleport target. At least by useing the events in the DFXMED. I used the ssn dead as a trigger (the ssn for the teleported AI) with a 10 sec timedelay. If you have a bunch of bg's in one group and use group dead as a trigger, only the last few you killed (those who are not yet vanished) will be teleported.


Regarding spawning in general, I kind of share Housemouse' opinion. I really hate when those BG's pop up 1 inch away from my face.


mr tarzan :D
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[*] posted on 4-22-2006 at 10:05 AM
realism? yes please.


I agree with you Jonathan. vissible respawns kills the reallism even in coop maps. I ve been thinking about that very same thing. Sounds like u got all the right ideas for hiding spawns. Also consider using teleport targets to change thier spawn points once the players get close thier original spawns. You will have to get creative with events so that they dont disapear while still alive and kicking.
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[*] posted on 4-22-2006 at 02:31 PM


This is such a useful topic, I'm "Topping" it..








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[*] posted on 8-15-2006 at 07:13 PM
Good Topic!


Using fewer AI to achieve the same difficulties in a coop mission. You would think makes things easier on the game server atleast.

I always wanted a building respawned Ai's could walk out of, but no one could walk into. I also figured sooner or later? Players would recognize these buildings, sit and wait for AI and pick them off. So now you would be hiding a building and setting up events, so AI would not respawn, if a player were around. Seems spawning them far off and teleport is about the best option. If you can keep track of where players are and have alternate teleport targets to avoid players.

Oh well, I am just coming back to Jo mapping, after a year or so. I need to learn more about xmed and get back into it. But it sounds like it shouldn't be to hard, too gracefully, introduce the player and the enemy with respawn and teleport?
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[*] posted on 8-19-2006 at 05:39 AM
respawn teleport for dfx med


Event 1: G3

Delay event 28 seconds

Triggers:

Mission Var#100 is equal to 0 and
SSN 14 is dead
Actions:

Teleport SSN 14 to target 1
Change SSN 14 to group 50
Redirect SSN 14 to nearest waypoint in list 28
Reset Event 1

set a teleport point away from player
he dies 28 seconds later he teleport to holding spot
changed his group
the waypoint hold him there
use triggers to re introduce him back in the map
variable v100 when set to 1 will set group spawn to 0
Hope this helps
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