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SilentTrigger
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American attacks have only fed the terrorism not minimized it at all, as mirage said, there have been more terrorist attacks after the war in
afganistan then before the only difference was that the latest attacks took place outside the USA...
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syphon
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i agree 100%. instead of making new wars, why doesnt bush try and sort out other problems like the war between israel and palestine. that should be
the mian priorit cos its been going on for years and is heating up more and more, peace should be brought to their to make thier lives easier.
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Whackjob
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In case you haven't been around for the last 3-4000 years, the Jews and Palestinians have probably been going at it since the earliest recorded
history.
The current chapter probably started just after WWII, following mandates pushed by UN (League of Nations BACK THEN).
The reason the Brits, and until recently France, were such close allies is that the US has been relied on to perform mop up operations after
withdrawals by the Brits and French from colonial fiascos on several ocassions (e.g. Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Vietnam etc, etc).
And the reason the US was so reluctant to get dragged into earlier world conflicts is painfully obvious today. It's a lose/lose situation. You lose
big $$ and lives, and the critics come out of the woodwork to beat the crap out of you after.
So, my question to all the idealists is, what would you do if someone flew an airliner full of innocent people including your mom into a skyscraper
full of more innocent people?
It's painfully obvious that Bush is not a diplomat, and Iraq was a questionable call, but to think that the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan
were not a legitimate target is naive.
Unfortuantely, the only martyrs we have today are the innocents in the planes and in the buidings that were attacked on 9/11 and the "collateral
damage" that is taking place daily in the war on terrorism.
All this brought about by the actions of misguided religious fanatics and misguided politicians with too much power. Both leaders probably have the
view that as long as it's not me or my kids getting killed, things are going pretty well. 
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syphon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Whackjob
In case you haven't been around for the last 3-4000 years, the Jews and Palestinians have probably been going at it since the earliest recorded
history.
The current chapter probably started just after WWII, following mandates pushed by UN.
The reason the Brits, and until recently France, were such close allies is that the US has been relied on to perform mop up operations after
withdrawals by the Brits and French from colonial fiascos on several ocassions (e.g. Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Vietnam etc, etc).
And the reason the US was so reluctant to get dragged into earlier world conflicts is painfully obvious today. It's a lose/lose situation. You lose
big $$ and lives, and the critics come out of the woodwork to beat the crap out of you after.
So, my question to all the idealists is, what would you do if someone flew an airliner full of innocent people including your mom into a skyscraper
full of more innocent people?
It's painfully obvious that Bush is not a diplomat, and Iraq was a questionable call, but to think that the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan
were not a legitimate target is naive.
Unfortuantely, the only martyrs we have today are the innocents in the planes nd in the buidings that were attacked on 9/11 and the "collateral
damage" that is taking place daily in the war on terrorism.
All this brought about by the actions of misguided religious fanatics and misguided politicians with too much power. Both leaders probably have the
view that as long as it's not me or my kids getting killed, things are going pretty well. |
the wars didnt have to be brought about. cos bush still hasnt affected terrorism at all, they r still around and dont seem to have been weakened.
and if bush keeps going on like this other countries r gonna ahve to do a lot of mop up jobs. like in iraq, bush is refusing to let the UN help
restore order as bush just wants a lovely base in the middle east for the U.S to use, and once the UN do get in its them who r going to have to do a
"mop up job" with the mess left over from this pointless war.
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Whackjob
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| Quote: |
the wars didnt have to be brought about. cos bush still hasnt affected terrorism at all, they r still around and dont seem to have been weakened.
and if bush keeps going on like this other countries r gonna ahve to do a lot of mop up jobs. like in iraq, bush is refusing to let the UN help
restore order as bush just wants a lovely base in the middle east for the U.S to use, and once the UN do get in its them who r going to have to do a
"mop up job" with the mess left over from this pointless war. |
Read your world history books and then make an attempt at another response.
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Bongo
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Bush will be in office for 4 more years boys and girls so get over it.
To do nothing and sit idlely by and let terrorist play like Clinton did is why we are in this mess to begin with. I'am proud that something was done
to prevent further death and chaos.
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Mirage
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Did you say 'prevent' further death and chaos. Surely you meant 'create'.
Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an
absolute load of rubbish. It makes it sound like there were places in the country where people went and said 'can i be a terrorist please', and were
trained boot-camp style. This of course is complete falacy and is only believed by gullable people who live in Bush's fantasy-land, where the world
is full of GOOD and BAD people.
In a country with no laws and no government, it is force that gives power. I don't agree with this of course, but that is the way things work out
there. If a man in that country buys a gun because joining these powerful people is the only way he can survive, is this TERRORISM ? Of course not.
There were some major terrorists in Afghanistan (Bin Laden etc) mainly because this was a place that they could easily hide (with no government, who
is going to find them). The US couldn't find them, so they attacked the Taliban instead. How many of the 9-11 attackers were from Afghanistan? I
don't know the answer to this, but what I do know is that most of them were from Saudi Arabia. But they didn't get attacked did they? Because
America has economic ties with Saudi Arabia. I repeat myself all the time in these forums about these issues, but I don't get through to any of you.
There seems to be a lot of support for the pro-war kind of statements made previously on this topic. But this isn't the view of the rest of the
world. I put the attitude down to the fact that most of the people who post on these forums are American, and male, and they play a game which
involves killing people.
I believe that killing people seldom ever solves anything, and that in this world death is dealt out too readily. Especially from people who claim to
be religious. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist - whatever, they all condemn killing people, and I don't think you can call yourself a true
believer in a faith if you pick and choose what to believe and what not to when it comes to their major teachings (obviously I'm not talking about
minor issues here, but death is a pretty major part of all religious beliefs, and is heavily condemned by all).
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Q-dad~TAG
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Well, it all boils down to:
"Don't follow leaders, watch the parkin' meters!" (Bob Dylan.... umm, he's American, btw...)
...and for ordinary people to use their right to speak up strongly against hillarious misuse of undeserved powers!
Btw, this (s)elected mr. bush has no more power than what his advicors let him have... they're the real monkeys here.
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Whackjob
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| Quote: |
Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an
absolute load of rubbish. It makes it sound like there were places in the country where people went and said 'can i be a terrorist please', and were
trained boot-camp style. This of course is complete falacy and is only believed by gullable people who live in Bush's fantasy-land, where the world
is full of GOOD and BAD people.
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I suppose that the people who acknowledged traveling from all over the world to attending these "Fantasy" training camps were imaginary.
You can go on blaming the US for all the worlds problems and refuse to look in the mirror all you want. It's quite obvious that you have your opinion
and refuse discuss any contribution the UK may have had creating the animosity that arabs/muslims have towards the west.
Perhaps you are too young to remember, or maybe they never discussed these things in the schools you attended.
It's obvious to me that these forums are not an appropriate medium for meaningful discussion of complex topics.
Have a nice day. Or, cheers as you might say.
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Mirage
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I know this can be said about almost anything, but I'd pass most of the 'terrorist training camp' stuff off as propoganda.
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soccerbacs
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I didnt really read the topic... but I think he has done good under terrible surconstances... yes he could of improved but no one is perfect...
looking back... tho I wish we could of gotten more countries to help with Iraq the war was done smoothly... I know this because my dad was deployed
for 6 months during the heat of it all...
This may of sounded weird if you ment the other bush!!! lol but thats great too!:D
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soccerbacs
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| Quote: | | u ever heard of special forces? while clinton was in office he mustve ordered attacks on Al Queada and Taliban forces in Afganhistan. You just dont
hear them on cnn or any other television brodcast stations cuase there secret. Clinton my friend Rebuilt the marine corps by putting more man power
and giving them what they wanted, while Bush SR. didnt even bother. |
LOL HMM.. lemme tell you something... things just cant go by secret these days... secret military attacks is called terrorism now days... crap... Ill
finish this later I gtg
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Commando*Bo$*
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soccerbacs
| Quote: | | u ever heard of special forces? while clinton was in office he mustve ordered attacks on Al Queada and Taliban forces in Afganhistan. You just dont
hear them on cnn or any other television brodcast stations cuase there secret. Clinton my friend Rebuilt the marine corps by putting more man power
and giving them what they wanted, while Bush SR. didnt even bother. |
LOL HMM.. lemme tell you something... things just cant go by secret these days... secret military attacks is called terrorism now days... crap... Ill
finish this later I gtg |
well lemme tell u something, first of all if u call ur american Special Forces "terrorist" then surely that means america are terrorist and so are
what 9000 other countries? so before u say Secrect that and secret this, Special Forces are working right now, preserving our freedom which we take
for granted and NO Spec ops are not terrorist and NO secret military ops are not "terrorism" what they do are classified, the only reason why they
showed "Saving Private Lnchy (sp)" is becuase A. The american wanted to show the public an in depth look at ur SEALS and Rangers, and B. It was to
boast morale. Yes the War in Iraq has gone well in tactics and training, but how bout the diplomatic stages? how about the mop up operations? Yes the
SHock and Awe Campaign was excellent, but they forgot one thing to secure those MSR's (Main Supply Routes). I have friends who were deployed in Iraq
as Marines and fought through Nasirya. u need to consider the fact that Special Forces work under secrecy and are not mentioned on our daily 6 p.m
news, they dont get acknowledge on what they do. Special Forces missions are "secret" if u want to argue this fine, but i really see no point becuase
some Spec Ops work secretly some dont
"Maybe I was brave, I don't know. At the time I was just doing the job, I didn't have time for other thoughts."
¡XPrivate Johnson Beharry
The First VC Recipient in 20 years
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{TA}Gen.Anthony
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point blank, this is a dead argument. None of u can prove anything uv said about terrorism so far its all opinion.
1. Terrorism is minimized =opinion
2.Terrorism is not minimized= opinion
3.Terrorism is not going to end= OPINION
4. Bush suck/is awesome= OPINION TO END ALL OPINIONS
5. Wat is and isnt a mop up job= Opinion
6. Terrorism is right or wrong= o-p-i-n-i-o-n
Please its dead. Ur not proving anything.
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syphon
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i reckon thos thread should just be closed cos everythings just being repeated over and over again now.
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SilentTrigger
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Why should we read history, this is about today not 400 years ago... UN will have to clean up after bush, as they have done before, in modern time,
dont hang up on the 1800 sentury....
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Whackjob
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SilentTrigger
Why should we read history, this is about today not 400 years ago... UN will have to clean up after bush, as they have done before, in modern time,
dont hang up on the 1800 sentury.... |
People slamming the U.S. for being warmongers/world supremacists and on, and on, don't seem to remember their own past and how it is relevant
to current events. This whole region is about the past.
As for the UN cleaning up after Bush, are you talking big Bush or little Bush? In either case, I don't recall the UN taking part in any clean-ups
involving the shrubs. I believe you are shooting blanks here.
Britain drew the line between Iraq and quwait and Saudi Arabia years ago and that's why Saddam thought it should be his for the taking. That's what
led to the first Gulf War etc, etc., Just because you don't remeber it doesn't make it irrelevant.
This whole region was divided up by the french and the Brits before the U.S. ever set foot on mid-east soil, which is the root of current hostilites
in the mid east.
And as for the Peace loving french, the same applies. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see anyone who doesn't deserve it getting wiped out. It does really bother me that we have killed so many
innocents in both Afghanistan and Iraq. As I said before, these are the only real "martyrs" in this whole bloody mess.
At the rate we're going, I don't know if mankind will ever learn from it's mistakes. I remember when I was a youngster wondering why men had to kill
other men all the time. I suppose that it never gets any easier to understand if you've never had anyone close to your heart that's been killed.
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Bongo
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| Quote: |
Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an
absolute load of rubbish.
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How do you think gangs, mafia's and malitia's start? They are groups of anti-something types that all think alike and are taught. Let me not leave out
cults because this would be the closest form to terrorists. Brainwashed valnerable individuals but in these countries they have no hope so they give
into these type groups and are raised to hate Americans to boot.
Your lost to think that they are rubbish and to sit idely by and watch these factions grow would have been a travisty.
This may be off subject here but I think America needs to give the world a wake-up call. Run a test in some remote place and blow off our biggest bomb
to send a signal to everyone that we are still the largest, greatest power and you need not mess with us. By acting not standing by, Bush has sent a
signal that not enough people w/ a brain are understanding and this would clear things up abit.
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SilentTrigger
Colonel
Posts: 372
Registered: 7-25-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Whackjob
| Quote: | Originally posted by SilentTrigger
Why should we read history, this is about today not 400 years ago... UN will have to clean up after bush, as they have done before, in modern time,
dont hang up on the 1800 sentury.... |
People slamming the U.S. for being warmongers/world supremacists and on, and on, don't seem to remember their own past and how it is relevant
to current events. This whole region is about the past.
As for the UN cleaning up after Bush, are you talking big Bush or little Bush? In either case, I don't recall the UN taking part in any clean-ups
involving the shrubs. I believe you are shooting blanks here.
Britain drew the line between Iraq and quwait and Saudi Arabia years ago and that's why Saddam thought it should be his for the taking. That's what
led to the first Gulf War etc, etc., Just because you don't remeber it doesn't make it irrelevant.
This whole region was divided up by the french and the Brits before the U.S. ever set foot on mid-east soil, which is the root of current hostilites
in the mid east.
And as for the Peace loving french, the same applies. People in glass houses should not throw stones.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see anyone who doesn't deserve it getting wiped out. It does really bother me that we have killed so many
innocents in both Afghanistan and Iraq. As I said before, these are the only real "martyrs" in this whole bloody mess.
At the rate we're going, I don't know if mankind will ever learn from it's mistakes. I remember when I was a youngster wondering why men had to kill
other men all the time. I suppose that it never gets any easier to understand if you've never had anyone close to your heart that's been killed.
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Power...
Had a long speach and decided to shorten it down to the word above...
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Crusader
Private
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Where do you live now Mirage?
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-=sleepy=-
Grunt
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Location: Scotland, UK
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Read his posts, he's already said twice, he's living in England at the moment
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Iceman=BOW=
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| Quote: | Originally posted by *58th*Blitz
Ok, let me educate you. The reason why Clinton didn't go "guns a blazing" over there is because if he did, the United States would be breaking
several international treaties, and the United Nations would have kicked us out of several of the committees we were on at the time.
Now that Bush has invaded Iraq and all them places. We have now broken those treaties and we are no longer on several very important committees in
the United Nations! |
So what are u saying that u support terrorism and that we should just keep the treaties and let them keep killing our people? I think that Bush did
something that Clinton was too caught up in other things to do.(LIke the lewinski issue) If he would have been paying more attention to things instead
of just waiting it out and giving more time to them to restructure, the we wouldnt have had 9/11. Sorry Clinton is a wus and will always be. Hillary
runs that family.:D
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Iceman=BOW=
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No Opinion
| Quote: | Originally posted by syphon
main fact is that Bush should never have been made president and from the outcome of these wars hes got himself into to me is proof why he should
never have got to be president, if he was indeed awesome then he wouldnt have had to cheat to get into government in the first place, hes not awesome,
hes a pathetic loser who does things to make his daddy proud and he wants to go down in history as a great man who sorted out terrorism, but he'll
only go down in history as a cheat, a rogue, and a war mongerer. |
These are the kind of things that shouldnt be said. He is the US president, not the queen of england. If you dont live here and pay ur taxes then u
shouldnt be complaining. You didnt have to go thru the 9/11 thing we did. So we will do whatever to take care of our own.
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Iceman=BOW=
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GET OUT
| Quote: | Originally posted by payper_boy
I hate this country....hell, i hate it with a passion...all the BS and crap we've done, thinking we are the best country in the world just because i
can say that bush is an ignorant fool, just like all the other presidents. This country is like every other one out there, just we bent the rules a
bit. Take this for an example: We are the land of life, liberty, and property. Freedom. If that was true, whats with the police anyway? Now, i know we
do need some kind of protection for the innocent people, but not so bad as that people (bounty hunters) dont even need to be police or CIA or whatever
and can storm a house with a 10 gauge shotgun for no reason at all, leaving whoever shaken and frigtened. I'm not anti-american, i just dont like this
country because it thinks its better than others. |
Well then tell ya what U can leave anytime that u want. Go, get out, we dont want people like u here anyway. Dont see anyone holding ya down.
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Iceman=BOW=
Private
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GOOD
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mirage
I left, and I'm never going back (except maybe to visit my sister)... But I'd never live there again. |
ONe down a few more to go. Hope that u never come back.
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