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Bush is awesome

RangerCompany - 9-14-2003 at 08:34 AM

Bush did what Clinton was too wimpy to do. He actually struct Al Qaeda, when Clinton passed up 3 opportunities to kill Osama... He removed Saddam who was asking for it for over 10 years, and Bill did not even bother. You all should be proud to have him as President!

Blitz - 9-14-2003 at 09:21 AM

Ok, let me educate you. The reason why Clinton didn't go "guns a blazing" over there is because if he did, the United States would be breaking several international treaties, and the United Nations would have kicked us out of several of the committees we were on at the time.

Now that Bush has invaded Iraq and all them places. We have now broken those treaties and we are no longer on several very important committees in the United Nations!

madhatter - 9-14-2003 at 10:37 AM

Now im not saying The un is useless, its a great thing for smaller countrys getting attacked by evil, but bush did what he thought was right and im pretty sure the USA will ALWAYS put its people infront of some commities. That stuff doesnt matter in the end, what matters is theres a safer place for us to live in, osama bin laden has been reduced from living a good life style to one of running in constant fear the same with Saddam. These people broke more laws then anyone, so why should we let them continue?

The us soldiers arnt taking 10-15 yr old virgins out of school so they could have there fun with them, and thats what alot of people in the regime did. :P so if we are in a few less commities in the UN, then good we shouldnt be in an organazation that lets that happen.

-edit-and lots of people say the us shouldnt be the worlds police, well whos going to? the un applied sancations against iraq to stop what they did, but those probably made it even worse for the people living there because then they had a dictator who kills them for no reason whatsoever, and less money/jobs/food...

Mirage - 9-14-2003 at 10:47 AM

Bush hasn't 'removed' Al Quaida at all. They killed some people in Afghanistan, who probably had nothing to do with Al Quaida, and captured a bunch of people who they still (after over a year) haven't brought charges against, which is a total breach of their human rights.

If you are referring to the war in Afghanistan as 'removing Al Quaida' this was far from it. Not all of Al Quaida were in Afghanistan at the time. They didn't know where Al Quaida were in Afghanistan, so they targeted the Taliban, who they claimed helped Al Quaida in some way. They may have tolerated Al Quaida's presence, but the Taliban were not linked to the 9-11 attacks. They were however a brutal and ruthless group.

But the USA fought the war in the most 'honourable' way didn't they. Making someone else (the Northern Alliance - an equally brutal and ruthless group as the Taliban) to fight their war, while they hide 30,000ft up in their planes and drop bombs on weddings.

Afghanistan is exactly the same as it was before the war. Human rights are still abused, the majority of land is controlled by armed gangs, the 'government' has no control of anything outside Kabul, and still Osama Bin Laden, or any other big figures in Al Quaida have been caught.

And the sad thing is that 10,000 Afghanistan people had to die for this 'cause', over 3,000 of these people had no links to the Taliban or any other 'terrorist' groups. The way to react to the killing of 2,500 American innocent civillians is not to go and kill another 3,000 innocent civillians. Just because it's in another country thousands of miles away, it does not make it any more right.

I would also have similar things to say about the futility of the war in Iraq. I don't see how people didn't see through the US and British government on this one. They were intent on attacking Iraq from day one. First they say that there's terrorists in Iraq, and when that was disproved they said that there were weapons of mass-destruction in Iraq, and when that was disproved they said they had to 'liberate' the people of Iraq.

The fact that Iraq is a dictatorship is an irresponsible reason to go to war with them. I believe in democracy as much as anyone, but there are dozens of dictatorships in the world, and they won't go and invade all of them, unless they want to attack half of Africa and the middle east.

There are much worse regimes in Africa, where the genocide of countless numbers of people occurs, but America doesn't care, because there would be no economic gain for them.

You call this 'liberating' the Iraqi people? Most of them don't want you in their country (some so much so that they are prepared to kill your soldiers for it). You still haven't found Saddam, or any WMDs - and I don't think you ever will. You wanted to get rid of the dictatorship there and give the Iraqis their country back. All you've done is replaced Saddam's dictatorship with your own dictatorship. It's been 4 months and you haven't even started discussions about creating an Iraqi government.

I think now, the US has realised it's got itself into a situation that it can't handle, and it will be stuck with for many years now. In my opinion this will go on for a lot longer, and will end up as a worse blunder than Vietnam.

All Bush has done is break treaties, kill thousands, and isolate America from the rest of the world. Oh yea, he also %$^"ed up your economy! Good man!

madhatter - 9-14-2003 at 11:03 AM

How do you get these numbers, i swear you must be in afghanastin counting bodys, lol i think the taliban mighta helped al quaida since well everyone knows there linked, you seem intent on hating anything american and what we do, lol you complain that not all of al quaida was in afghanastin, so what do u want us to do attack europe because theres TONS in there, we attacked the country which had the most we could kill with the fewest negative side effects, you must live in a country were the military is perfect and accidents dont happen, but we dont live in a walgreen type world. If 3000 people in whatever country your from died in one day because someone doesnt like you, wouldnt u fight back? And isnt there another post that tells where we have our soldiers in africa, we cant have them everywere but we have them in dozens of countrys.

Ah i know what it is, you work for the arab nations news company dont you? al jezeirh i think its called.

PS how is attacking iraq an economic gain, we are spending 1billion $ a week thats a lose to me

Mirage - 9-14-2003 at 12:06 PM

Exactly my point. The USA felt resentment after 9-11, and rightly so. But Bush felt they needed to do something to 'retaliate', and show the world and the Americans how 'great' your country still is. Because there was no obvious target, the US decided to attack the easiest nation (Afghanistan) that they could find a link to the attacks with. Most of the people involved in the 9-11 attacks were Saudi Arabian, but of course America wouldn't attack them, because they have economic ties with Saudi Arabia. Plus the fact that Saudi Arabia actually has a national defence program, unlike Afghanistan did.

And the reason the US is spending so much money in Iraq, is the fact that the war (more specifically, the aftermath) didn't go entirely to plan. For some reason they didn't expect this to happen. They thought they could just go in and take over the country without any troubles.

The economic interest lies mainly in the large oil reserves in Iraq. Before the war, Iraq wouldn't sell any oil to the USA, but sold it to other countries at a lower price than oil from the USA. The USA has a very large oil industry, and with the economic crisis that Bush has created, his administration thought that it would be a quick-fix to take over oil reserves in Iraq. By doing this he was hoping to put a stop to Iraq undercutting it in oil prices. Now that America has taken over the Iraqi oil, it can now control it's prices in order to keep its domestic oil industry competitive. Also, as all the oil was owned by Saddam Hussain, the US can now allow Iraq's oil to be taken over by US corporations.

Undoubtedly, the US will set up industry in Iraq. There has already been hundereds of construction contracts in Iraq gone to American firms. We just have to ask when the next Nike factory will open in Iraq.

There is also the matter with the World Bank. This is a more complicated issue, but in brief, the more wealthy a nation is in relation to other nations, the more seats (and therefore power) it will get in the world bank. Giving the country greater control over world economic affairs. America isn't too keen on nations becoming richer and taking over its seats at the world bank - thus giving America less power. Iraq was one of these nations, and therefore America saw it to be a legitimate target for attack.

The US government is basically run by the industries that back it, so most of the decisions made are to attempt give the US economic gain.

And I know a lot of facts about this becauseI work for the Home Office in the UK - So I probably know a lot more about this than you do.

Commando*Bo$* - 9-14-2003 at 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by RangerCompany
. He actually struct Al Qaeda, when Clinton passed up 3 opportunities to kill Osama... He removed Saddam who was asking for it for over 10 years, and Bill did not even bother.

u ever heard of special forces? while clinton was in office he mustve ordered attacks on Al Queada and Taliban forces in Afganhistan. You just dont hear them on cnn or any other television brodcast stations cuase there secret. Clinton my friend Rebuilt the marine corps by putting more man power and giving them what they wanted, while Bush SR. didnt even bother.

-=sleepy=- - 9-14-2003 at 01:24 PM

ummmm. George W Bush JR ...

- Ran for congress and lost.

- bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas; company went bankrupt shortly after he sold all his stock

- changed pollution laws for power and oil companies and made Texas the most polluted state in the Union.

- Cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas government to the tune of billions in borrowed money. Set record for most executions by any Governor in American history.

- became president after losing the popular vote by over 500,000 votes, with
the help of his fathers appointments to the Supreme Court??

- attacked and took over two countries

- spent the U.S. surplus and bankrupted the treasury

- shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.

- set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period.

- the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record.

- the first year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history

- cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in US history.
(gotta pay for those bombs somewhere)
- appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in US history.

- signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in US history.

- presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.

- presided over the highest gasoline prices in US history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have. (Need that money for bombs)

- cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.

- set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest him (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against ANY person in the history of mankind

- dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history.

- presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history.

- cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history.

- the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.

- presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world

- the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the world community.

- the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the human rights commission.

- the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the elections monitoring board.

- rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.

- withdrew from the World Court of Law.

- refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions

- the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack
(and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)

- took the biggest world sympathy for the US after 911, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world

- with a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.

- the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.

- In the 18 months following the 911 attacks has successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.

- removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history.

- entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

- was AWOL from National Guard and deserted the military during a time of war.

- All records of his tenure as governor of Texas have been spirited away to his fathers library, sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

- records of any SEC investigations into his insider trading or bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

- All minutes of meetings for any public corporation heI served on the board are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

hmmmmm, sounds like a great guy.

Let's talk a bit about American history then ...

1953: U.S. overthrows Prime Minister Mossadeq of Iran. U.S. installs Shah as dictator.

1954: U.S. overthrows democratically-elected President Arbenz of Guatemala. 200,000 civilians killed.

1963: U.S. backs assassination of South Vietnamese President Diem.

1963-1975: American military kills 4 million civilians in Southeast Asia.

September 11, 1973: U.S. stages coup in Chile. Democratically elected president Salvador Allende assassinated. Dictator Augusto Pinochet installed. 5,000 Chileans murdered.

1977: U.S. backs military rulers of El Salvador. 70,000 Salvadorans and four American nuns killed.

1980's: U.S. trains Osama bin Laden and fellow terrorists to kill Soviets. CIA gives them $3 billion.

1981: Reagan administration trains and funds "contras". 30,000 Nicaraguans die.

1982: U.S. provides billions in aid to Saddam Hussein for weapons to kill Iranians.

1983: White House secretly gives Iran weapons to help them kill Iraqis.

1989: CIA agent Manuel Noriega (also serving as President of Panama) disobeys orders from Washington. U.S. invades Panama and removes Noriega. 3,000 Panamanian civilian casualties

1990: Iraq invades Kuwait with weapons from U.S.

1991: U.S. enters Iraq. Bush reinstates dictator of Kuwait.

1991 to present: American planes bomb Iraq on a weekly basis. U.N. estimates 500,000 Iraqi children die from bombing and sanctions.

2000-01: U.S. gives Taliban-ruled Afghanistan $245 million in "aid".

September 11, 2001: Osama Bin Laden uses his expert CIA training to murder 3,000 people.

Not to mention the Persian Gulf War mark 2 ... 343 confirmed coalition deaths in the war as of September 13, 2003, Tens of thousands of Iraqi soldiers and civilians killed ... and yet, still havn't managed to find Saddam or his deputy.

Blitz - 9-14-2003 at 01:29 PM

You know, instead of copying that all down, you could have just posted the link lol.

-=sleepy=- - 9-14-2003 at 01:46 PM

dang, BUSTED ... I was hoping you'd all think that I sourced all the information myself, oh well, i tried :D

SilentTrigger - 9-14-2003 at 08:23 PM

Bush is an idiot, more then Clinton ever was

And i think it was a bad dissision to "leave" UN, USA need the UN...

syphon - 9-14-2003 at 08:30 PM

main fact is that Bush should never have been made president and from the outcome of these wars hes got himself into to me is proof why he should never have got to be president, if he was indeed awesome then he wouldnt have had to cheat to get into government in the first place, hes not awesome, hes a pathetic loser who does things to make his daddy proud and he wants to go down in history as a great man who sorted out terrorism, but he'll only go down in history as a cheat, a rogue, and a war mongerer.

Australia

Iceman - 9-14-2003 at 08:46 PM

You think the US president is Bad, Look at what we have. John Howard Short and bold and jumps when bush pulls his string

***lol**

Regards

syphon - 9-14-2003 at 08:53 PM

same with tony blaire over here in england, "bush says jump", blair says, "yes sir, how high?"

Blitz - 9-15-2003 at 04:03 AM

LOL, I never did quite understand why Tony Blaire is doing the things he has been doing since 9/11. And as for Australia, I didn't even know you guys were in the war lol. But I have been out of the loop for a while now, not having Tv and all.

Death []r9[] - 9-15-2003 at 06:05 AM

Bush needs to get assinated...end of story. :cool:

madhatter - 9-15-2003 at 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Death []r9[]
Bush needs to get assinated...end of story. :cool:

....no thats just wrong, seek help

Commando*Bo$* - 9-15-2003 at 07:33 AM

i wouldnt assinate him, thats just as mad put it wrong or Conspiracy to kill or overthrow the government, wouldnt it be better to just not vote for him or watch him get kicked out of office instead of assasnate him?

payper_boy - 9-15-2003 at 08:08 AM

I hate this country....hell, i hate it with a passion...all the BS and crap we've done, thinking we are the best country in the world just because i can say that bush is an ignorant fool, just like all the other presidents. This country is like every other one out there, just we bent the rules a bit. Take this for an example: We are the land of life, liberty, and property. Freedom. If that was true, whats with the police anyway? Now, i know we do need some kind of protection for the innocent people, but not so bad as that people (bounty hunters) dont even need to be police or CIA or whatever and can storm a house with a 10 gauge shotgun for no reason at all, leaving whoever shaken and frigtened. I'm not anti-american, i just dont like this country because it thinks its better than others.

{TA}Gen.Anthony - 9-15-2003 at 08:27 AM

thats good u hate america, almost everyone that posted here does, do u all feel proud now?

Havoc - 9-15-2003 at 08:29 AM

eh if you don't like it so much, why don't you leave then?

Mirage - 9-15-2003 at 08:59 AM

I left, and I'm never going back (except maybe to visit my sister)... But I'd never live there again.

Vªm¶ïrëº¹ - 9-15-2003 at 09:10 AM

I say all the bush's SUCK!!! i hate all of those ass's. including George Bush and George W. Bush. i was against George W. Bush since he ran for president. If hge runs again he will not win. He is just a freakin [Censored]. And Clinton could kick the [Censored] out of George W. Bush. Thats all i have to say, and Bush will not run again next year, if he does, and he wins, you will see my name on all major news shows. I could not hate Bush more right now. George Bush a.k.a Jackass

George W. Bush a.k.a ASS

end of story.

madhatter - 9-15-2003 at 09:50 AM

And you wonder how some people are mods, no need for this thread to be a flame war kids, expecially since the person your flaming isnt evening readin this

Commando*Bo$* - 9-15-2003 at 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by {TA}Gen.Anthony
thats good u hate america, almost everyone that posted here does, do u all feel proud now?

i dont hate america infact its like a second hom though Canada is my 1st. u go down to states like Penn, Massutchets (sp) Baltimore Washington, then the ppl around there are quite nice i mean the love america yes but that doesnt seem to bother them about Canadians coming down there, they once gave me a free game dont know why they just did, i ask them some stuff about compueters and they would answer me back "Sure i'll help you, what's your COmputer OS,Specs"? so America is not all bad there are the occasional bad ppl who dont give S***** about what ur talking about.

hineigger - 9-15-2003 at 01:52 PM

I wouldnt call Bush awesome..

Maybe a "Hero" or something, but not awesome...

I guess its cool we finally have a pres who does whats right and whats in his heart instead of what makes the ciritcs happy.

{TA}Gen.Anthony - 9-15-2003 at 07:35 PM

Personally i dont care if you guys hate america or not, but jesus, u guys act like America corrupted the whole world and heaven itself. The stuff that you guys are blaming America for have been around since the beggining of time ( and no i do not mean specific things, but their values).

Mojo2004 - 9-15-2003 at 10:34 PM

Bush only sent al quaeda into deeper hiding, and he only won the election by mistake - and where is Sadman Insane they may of lifted him, but I expect he'll be back in one way or another.

The ealier point about bush and blair is true - Blair has a problem - he has his head up bush's ass so far, that bush eds up speaking for him....

haters of bush check out this link - here

Mojo2004 - 9-15-2003 at 10:35 PM

got the link wron (typo) - click here BFD

payper_boy - 9-16-2003 at 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Havoc
eh if you don't like it so much, why don't you leave then?

Well, Havoc, I did leave that country. Not because of how much I hated it, or because of the money "crisis" you guys have going on right now, its because after 9/11, I was seen as the bad guy. :mad:

KAH Pimp - 9-16-2003 at 01:00 AM

yah .. uh papyr .. can we say martyr? ...
for all the rest of you "anti-americans" (Mirage,Death,slepy,etc.) exactly what country are you in .. ehh??

Mirage i've read alot of your anti-american posts .. and most of the time just don't bother .. but curiosity has gotten the best of me this time .. so i'm curious .. where is home now?

It never ceases to amaze me how everyone climbs on that "anti-american" bandwagon ... until ,that is they need help .. then it's all about "Why doesn't america her up and help us" ... pleasssee .. take off the rose colored glasses .. because this false eutopia you are always tryin to paint about "america-the-bad" .. the rest of the world good .. is just that ... false

so i ask again .. what country do you call home ... or ,better yet .. who is it you see as "mr perfect" .. i'm betting no matter who you list ... a "naughty-list" just as long as any you list for america can be come up with

Mirage - 9-16-2003 at 01:39 AM

I live in the UK, but it's only marginally better than the USA. I only write so many 'anti-american' posts because there are so many retards posting 'i love america - we're so great'. The thing is with the UK, is that even though our country does and has done a lot of things that I disagree with, Brits don't go into forums raving about how great it is that our country kills people.

P.S. If you actually cared to read my post (which you probably didn't because you only want to hear people praising your country) I did mention where I live.

syphon - 9-16-2003 at 02:01 AM

the UK sucks to, and im there, im living the english life. though for all u who no the british parties the labour party is better than the conservative party which is more right wing, and we would have gone to war alot sooner if conservatives were in power, however, i believe the only way forward in england is to vote liberal democrat cos they have the interests of the ppl more than the other 2 main parties.

just thought id draw away from anti america a bit as ppl dont like it and i can flame england all i want cos im english and not offended by it. down with blaire i say.

and for all u ppl in england visit www.stopwar.org.uk

thankyou for your time.

KAH Pimp - 9-16-2003 at 07:21 AM

hrmmm .. yes .. i see it .. there at the bottom of all the second anti-american comments ..

hrmm lets see .. according to your broad generalized remarks and based on your comments .. i guess it's ok then .. if I make the same generalizations as you .. seeing as how "I" see sooooo many Brits making assumptions on how Tony Blair is Bush's "puppet" .. then ,according to your mentallity .. I can say that brits are arrogant asses that are still just sore over americans kickin the snot out of em way back when .. nevermind if i believe it or not ...

so yep .. i'ma generalize just like you .. and from now on i intend on personifying the "so-called-typical" american you say we all are ... i think when we are done with iraq .. we should set our sights for the uk .. "just cuz we americans are power hungry" .. then we can turn our guns to the israelli/palestine conflict .. screw who's right or wrong there ... we're americans .. we should have the "holy-land" ourselves .. because we "self-righteous" and all

sound ridiculous?? .. insane?? .. flat out stupid?? that's because it is .. just like your last comment .. pleeeaaasseeee .. grow up and pull the cob out yer arse .. don't generalize .. it shows what lack of character you try to make yerself out to have

Death []r9[] - 9-16-2003 at 08:18 AM

I live in the U.S., I just don't like Bush, he needs to choke on something and die...or like I stated before... (but oh jeeze cry me a river)

Bush needs to get assinated!!

end of story. :cool:

Now don't get too butt hurt and post another 5 paragraph post.

This is my opinion if you don't like it don't respond its only gonna create retaliation. :cool:

Mirage - 9-16-2003 at 09:17 AM

Pimp, will all respect - what the hell are u talking about?

I never made any remarks generalising what all Americans are like. I have only stated what your government has done - which you can't deny. And you also can't deny that there have been numerous posts on these forums by people boasting about how great the US military is, and how great the wars you've had are. It really sickens me to see people write things like this. The power of war is one that the US (and Britain and all other countries have) as an absolute last resort, and any country 'forced' into a war should not be proud that your country is killing people, but sad that the situation had to arise in the first place. But the fact that the 2 wars that Bush orchestrated since he became president were both totally unnecessary makes the fact that people are gloating about them all the more worrying for me.

The only piece of generalising I did was on British people 'not gloating about the wars weve had'. This of course was an obvious bit of generalising and was not intended to be taken completely seriously. It was to illusrate the point that these kind of posts are very rarely seen on here (I can't remember one). But posts of this nature from Americans on these forums is quite common.

Havoc - 9-16-2003 at 09:33 AM

O.K.

1. Bush does not represent all of America (he just got the bigger states)
2. Even though he doesn't, we elected him, so basically it's our fault
3. Americans are just defending their pride here
4. America is not the perfect place
5. Bush is not a horrible president (this may be put to fact, but until we go into another great depression, I'm fine)
6. To people who have left America: good for you, don't like it then leave, much like giong on strike except you don't come back.
7. When Americans says that they are great, remember there's still more people out there who think America is nothing more than a pile of crap.
8. America has problems, what country doesn't?
9. For the IQ reference there is no possible way (even though you were exaggerating Blitz) that anyone's IQ is that high, the highest IQ belongs to a man named Stephen Hawkins (210) who cannot speak.
10. Even though I will probably get criticized for this and are probably wrong in most points, this is how I see it

Raptor - 9-16-2003 at 10:02 AM

MAN......why do yall blame bush for all of this? What would Al Gore have done after 9/11 ? just don't see why ppl have to be so hard on da man.........hes got a tough job........give em a break

Blitz - 9-16-2003 at 10:09 AM

I am anit-Bush, but I also do not like Al Gore, but in the case of the presidency, I think that Al Gore would have been the lesser of two evils so to speak. Anyways, I think this post thread is starting to get a little out of hand. Things need to cool down a bit.

Raptor - 9-16-2003 at 10:28 AM

i agree us fussin' bout it wont help if ya don't like the fella just dont vote for em next time

Raptor*\/$*

{TA}Gen.Anthony - 9-16-2003 at 10:34 AM

Mirage , yeah our government has done some bad stuff but thats all u talk about. Other governments have done bad stuff to, so where's ur long winded posts on how bad they are? How evil their nations are? The rest of you too. Like i said America isnt wat corrupted this world so y make it out to be?

Bon3head-TC- - 9-16-2003 at 12:44 PM

Because he's a little kid that doesn't know any better.

Al Gore wouldn't have done anything after 9/11, Bush is one of the strongest presidents this country has had in a very long time.
He stands up for what is right. Personally, I'm glad that Mirage isn't in this country anymore, I wish more ppl would leave that have the same feelings that he has...but then we'd have to go save their sorry butt's when another country tries to take over the one all the pacifists moved to.
It's called Pro-Active. Our country isn't going to sit by and hope that another country or group of people, that we know hates us, will just leave us alone.
I also think that anyone who moves from this country like Mirage should have their citizenship revoked permantly.
I'm still waiting on all of the actors to move that said they would move to another country if Bush got elected, Depp can be their leader.

KAH Pimp - 9-16-2003 at 02:54 PM

Quote:

This is my opinion if you don't like it don't respond its only gonna create retaliation.

lmfaoooooo .. wtf is that supposed to mean ?? .. lol

mirage ... you do/did generalize ... "america is evil" ... it's always your theme ... but anyway i'll just leave it at that ...

"retaliation." .... hahahahahahaha *walks away from thread and shakes head*

syphon - 9-17-2003 at 12:58 AM

i dont slag of the normal american man, just bush and his government its like a dictatoship in U.S and in U.K cos the rest of the governement just sucks up to the leader so they get wat they want neway. governments suck at the moment, they do wat they want wen they want. with Bush And Blaire they go on a, 'act now, think later' way of doing things, they have no concern for ne1 but themselves, they say power corrupts, pretty much every governement at the moment is proof of that. i just hate the governments, not the people, so if someone was to say that brits are arragant, etc then yes that would offend me cos theres no need to dis the people, i was just dising the govs, and but generalising i meant onto toher governemts rather than just concerntraing on Bush, cos they r all the same, right wing, corrupt, power hungry, the list goes on.

thankyou for your time.

SilentTrigger - 9-17-2003 at 01:25 AM

I seriously doubt that the "war against terrorists" has had any affects really, it has only woken the sleeping bear...

Raptor - 9-17-2003 at 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SilentTrigger
I seriously doubt that the "war against terrorists" has had any affects really, it has only woken the sleeping bear...

only woken the sleeping bear?......dude yamatto said i am afraid that we hav only woken a sleeping giant after he bombed pearl harbor....but you have to admit mabey the "war on terror" has not turned up all of Al Queta or osoma but it has demolished many camps and got rid of many of the SOBs and i will promise you that no one will ever stop terrorism....there is no way........we can minimize it but never get rid of it completly thats just a fact :mad:

Mirage - 9-17-2003 at 05:49 AM

True raptor, but I don't think attacking countries is any way to 'minimise' terrorism. Quite the opposite in fact.

Commando*Bo$* - 9-17-2003 at 06:09 AM

raptor Japan at the point of Pearl Harbour was at its high point and Yamamoto did not say anything like that the movie just put that in, at that time Germany,Italy and the axis thought America had no balls to fight a war and after Philipines, Kasserine Pass the axis just laughed at america. then america started to fight back then Yamamoto realized he woke the allies up. but ya its happended every war they think the war is over then Bang its not, take a look at iraq America thought "it was secure" then the bombings shootings started happening. Afganhistan is quiet but it wont be for long.

Mirage - 9-17-2003 at 06:15 AM

Mando... I love u man!

Commando*Bo$* - 9-17-2003 at 06:21 AM

but its true back at WW2 the war was over yes but some fanatics fought resistance manuevers and carried out thier "fina solution" to the jewish population. Vietnam after the war there was still civil unrest in the region, Gulf War iraq still penerated the No Fly Zones trying to shoot down American Planes, Afganistan still to wait, Iraq more soldiers are dying after the war than the middle half, and these attacks will continue until they drive the "invaders" back. i think Saddam is alive becuase who order these attacks? surely Iraqi Commanders really dont have the guts and compromise thier positions, the only guy i know of not afraid of the coalition is Saddam but lets no get there dont want to start up a arguement.

SilentTrigger - 9-18-2003 at 12:23 AM

American attacks have only fed the terrorism not minimized it at all, as mirage said, there have been more terrorist attacks after the war in afganistan then before the only difference was that the latest attacks took place outside the USA...

syphon - 9-18-2003 at 01:32 AM

i agree 100%. instead of making new wars, why doesnt bush try and sort out other problems like the war between israel and palestine. that should be the mian priorit cos its been going on for years and is heating up more and more, peace should be brought to their to make thier lives easier.

Whackjob - 9-20-2003 at 09:20 PM

In case you haven't been around for the last 3-4000 years, the Jews and Palestinians have probably been going at it since the earliest recorded history.

The current chapter probably started just after WWII, following mandates pushed by UN (League of Nations BACK THEN).

The reason the Brits, and until recently France, were such close allies is that the US has been relied on to perform mop up operations after withdrawals by the Brits and French from colonial fiascos on several ocassions (e.g. Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Vietnam etc, etc).

And the reason the US was so reluctant to get dragged into earlier world conflicts is painfully obvious today. It's a lose/lose situation. You lose big $$ and lives, and the critics come out of the woodwork to beat the crap out of you after.

So, my question to all the idealists is, what would you do if someone flew an airliner full of innocent people including your mom into a skyscraper full of more innocent people?

It's painfully obvious that Bush is not a diplomat, and Iraq was a questionable call, but to think that the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan were not a legitimate target is naive.

Unfortuantely, the only martyrs we have today are the innocents in the planes and in the buidings that were attacked on 9/11 and the "collateral damage" that is taking place daily in the war on terrorism.

All this brought about by the actions of misguided religious fanatics and misguided politicians with too much power. Both leaders probably have the view that as long as it's not me or my kids getting killed, things are going pretty well.

syphon - 9-21-2003 at 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whackjob
In case you haven't been around for the last 3-4000 years, the Jews and Palestinians have probably been going at it since the earliest recorded history.

The current chapter probably started just after WWII, following mandates pushed by UN.

The reason the Brits, and until recently France, were such close allies is that the US has been relied on to perform mop up operations after withdrawals by the Brits and French from colonial fiascos on several ocassions (e.g. Lebanon, Iraq, Palestine, Vietnam etc, etc).

And the reason the US was so reluctant to get dragged into earlier world conflicts is painfully obvious today. It's a lose/lose situation. You lose big $$ and lives, and the critics come out of the woodwork to beat the crap out of you after.

So, my question to all the idealists is, what would you do if someone flew an airliner full of innocent people including your mom into a skyscraper full of more innocent people?

It's painfully obvious that Bush is not a diplomat, and Iraq was a questionable call, but to think that the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan were not a legitimate target is naive.

Unfortuantely, the only martyrs we have today are the innocents in the planes nd in the buidings that were attacked on 9/11 and the "collateral damage" that is taking place daily in the war on terrorism.

All this brought about by the actions of misguided religious fanatics and misguided politicians with too much power. Both leaders probably have the view that as long as it's not me or my kids getting killed, things are going pretty well.

the wars didnt have to be brought about. cos bush still hasnt affected terrorism at all, they r still around and dont seem to have been weakened.
and if bush keeps going on like this other countries r gonna ahve to do a lot of mop up jobs. like in iraq, bush is refusing to let the UN help restore order as bush just wants a lovely base in the middle east for the U.S to use, and once the UN do get in its them who r going to have to do a "mop up job" with the mess left over from this pointless war.

Whackjob - 9-21-2003 at 04:22 AM

Quote:

Read your world history books and then make an attempt at another response.

Bongo - 9-21-2003 at 04:52 AM

Bush will be in office for 4 more years boys and girls so get over it.

To do nothing and sit idlely by and let terrorist play like Clinton did is why we are in this mess to begin with. I'am proud that something was done to prevent further death and chaos.

Mirage - 9-21-2003 at 09:40 AM

Did you say 'prevent' further death and chaos. Surely you meant 'create'.

Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an absolute load of rubbish. It makes it sound like there were places in the country where people went and said 'can i be a terrorist please', and were trained boot-camp style. This of course is complete falacy and is only believed by gullable people who live in Bush's fantasy-land, where the world is full of GOOD and BAD people.

In a country with no laws and no government, it is force that gives power. I don't agree with this of course, but that is the way things work out there. If a man in that country buys a gun because joining these powerful people is the only way he can survive, is this TERRORISM ? Of course not. There were some major terrorists in Afghanistan (Bin Laden etc) mainly because this was a place that they could easily hide (with no government, who is going to find them). The US couldn't find them, so they attacked the Taliban instead. How many of the 9-11 attackers were from Afghanistan? I don't know the answer to this, but what I do know is that most of them were from Saudi Arabia. But they didn't get attacked did they? Because America has economic ties with Saudi Arabia. I repeat myself all the time in these forums about these issues, but I don't get through to any of you.

There seems to be a lot of support for the pro-war kind of statements made previously on this topic. But this isn't the view of the rest of the world. I put the attitude down to the fact that most of the people who post on these forums are American, and male, and they play a game which involves killing people.

I believe that killing people seldom ever solves anything, and that in this world death is dealt out too readily. Especially from people who claim to be religious. Be it Christian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist - whatever, they all condemn killing people, and I don't think you can call yourself a true believer in a faith if you pick and choose what to believe and what not to when it comes to their major teachings (obviously I'm not talking about minor issues here, but death is a pretty major part of all religious beliefs, and is heavily condemned by all).

Q-dad~TAG - 9-21-2003 at 10:51 AM

Well, it all boils down to:

"Don't follow leaders, watch the parkin' meters!" (Bob Dylan.... umm, he's American, btw...)

...and for ordinary people to use their right to speak up strongly against hillarious misuse of undeserved powers!

Btw, this (s)elected mr. bush has no more power than what his advicors let him have... they're the real monkeys here.

Whackjob - 9-21-2003 at 10:53 AM

Quote:

Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an absolute load of rubbish. It makes it sound like there were places in the country where people went and said 'can i be a terrorist please', and were trained boot-camp style. This of course is complete falacy and is only believed by gullable people who live in Bush's fantasy-land, where the world is full of GOOD and BAD people.

I suppose that the people who acknowledged traveling from all over the world to attending these "Fantasy" training camps were imaginary.

You can go on blaming the US for all the worlds problems and refuse to look in the mirror all you want. It's quite obvious that you have your opinion and refuse discuss any contribution the UK may have had creating the animosity that arabs/muslims have towards the west.

Perhaps you are too young to remember, or maybe they never discussed these things in the schools you attended.

It's obvious to me that these forums are not an appropriate medium for meaningful discussion of complex topics.

Have a nice day. Or, cheers as you might say.

Mirage - 9-21-2003 at 11:09 AM

I know this can be said about almost anything, but I'd pass most of the 'terrorist training camp' stuff off as propoganda.

soccerbacs - 9-21-2003 at 12:07 PM

I didnt really read the topic... but I think he has done good under terrible surconstances... yes he could of improved but no one is perfect... looking back... tho I wish we could of gotten more countries to help with Iraq the war was done smoothly... I know this because my dad was deployed for 6 months during the heat of it all...

This may of sounded weird if you ment the other bush!!! lol but thats great too!:D

soccerbacs - 9-21-2003 at 12:15 PM

Quote:

LOL HMM.. lemme tell you something... things just cant go by secret these days... secret military attacks is called terrorism now days... crap... Ill finish this later I gtg

Commando*Bo$* - 9-21-2003 at 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by soccerbacs

Quote:

LOL HMM.. lemme tell you something... things just cant go by secret these days... secret military attacks is called terrorism now days... crap... Ill finish this later I gtg

well lemme tell u something, first of all if u call ur american Special Forces "terrorist" then surely that means america are terrorist and so are what 9000 other countries? so before u say Secrect that and secret this, Special Forces are working right now, preserving our freedom which we take for granted and NO Spec ops are not terrorist and NO secret military ops are not "terrorism" what they do are classified, the only reason why they showed "Saving Private Lnchy (sp)" is becuase A. The american wanted to show the public an in depth look at ur SEALS and Rangers, and B. It was to boast morale. Yes the War in Iraq has gone well in tactics and training, but how bout the diplomatic stages? how about the mop up operations? Yes the SHock and Awe Campaign was excellent, but they forgot one thing to secure those MSR's (Main Supply Routes). I have friends who were deployed in Iraq as Marines and fought through Nasirya. u need to consider the fact that Special Forces work under secrecy and are not mentioned on our daily 6 p.m news, they dont get acknowledge on what they do. Special Forces missions are "secret" if u want to argue this fine, but i really see no point becuase some Spec Ops work secretly some dont

{TA}Gen.Anthony - 9-21-2003 at 02:40 PM

point blank, this is a dead argument. None of u can prove anything uv said about terrorism so far its all opinion.

1. Terrorism is minimized =opinion
2.Terrorism is not minimized= opinion
3.Terrorism is not going to end= OPINION
4. Bush suck/is awesome= OPINION TO END ALL OPINIONS
5. Wat is and isnt a mop up job= Opinion
6. Terrorism is right or wrong= o-p-i-n-i-o-n

Please its dead. Ur not proving anything.

syphon - 9-21-2003 at 06:03 PM

i reckon thos thread should just be closed cos everythings just being repeated over and over again now.

SilentTrigger - 9-21-2003 at 10:00 PM

Why should we read history, this is about today not 400 years ago... UN will have to clean up after bush, as they have done before, in modern time, dont hang up on the 1800 sentury....

Whackjob - 9-22-2003 at 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SilentTrigger
Why should we read history, this is about today not 400 years ago... UN will have to clean up after bush, as they have done before, in modern time, dont hang up on the 1800 sentury....

People slamming the U.S. for being warmongers/world supremacists and on, and on, don't seem to remember their own past and how it is relevant to current events. This whole region is about the past.

As for the UN cleaning up after Bush, are you talking big Bush or little Bush? In either case, I don't recall the UN taking part in any clean-ups involving the shrubs. I believe you are shooting blanks here.

Britain drew the line between Iraq and quwait and Saudi Arabia years ago and that's why Saddam thought it should be his for the taking. That's what led to the first Gulf War etc, etc., Just because you don't remeber it doesn't make it irrelevant.

This whole region was divided up by the french and the Brits before the U.S. ever set foot on mid-east soil, which is the root of current hostilites in the mid east.

And as for the Peace loving french, the same applies. People in glass houses should not throw stones.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like to see anyone who doesn't deserve it getting wiped out. It does really bother me that we have killed so many innocents in both Afghanistan and Iraq. As I said before, these are the only real "martyrs" in this whole bloody mess.

At the rate we're going, I don't know if mankind will ever learn from it's mistakes. I remember when I was a youngster wondering why men had to kill other men all the time. I suppose that it never gets any easier to understand if you've never had anyone close to your heart that's been killed.

Bongo - 9-22-2003 at 01:44 AM

Quote:

Afghanistan wasn't a 'terrorist factory'. It is simply a country which had no central government or official laws. 'Terrorist training camps' is an absolute load of rubbish.

How do you think gangs, mafia's and malitia's start? They are groups of anti-something types that all think alike and are taught. Let me not leave out cults because this would be the closest form to terrorists. Brainwashed valnerable individuals but in these countries they have no hope so they give into these type groups and are raised to hate Americans to boot.

Your lost to think that they are rubbish and to sit idely by and watch these factions grow would have been a travisty.

This may be off subject here but I think America needs to give the world a wake-up call. Run a test in some remote place and blow off our biggest bomb to send a signal to everyone that we are still the largest, greatest power and you need not mess with us. By acting not standing by, Bush has sent a signal that not enough people w/ a brain are understanding and this would clear things up abit.

SilentTrigger - 9-22-2003 at 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Whackjob

Quote:

Power...
Had a long speach and decided to shorten it down to the word above...

Crusader - 9-22-2003 at 03:29 AM

Where do you live now Mirage?

-=sleepy=- - 9-22-2003 at 11:13 PM

Read his posts, he's already said twice, he's living in England at the moment

Iceman=BOW= - 9-22-2003 at 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by *58th*Blitz
Ok, let me educate you. The reason why Clinton didn't go "guns a blazing" over there is because if he did, the United States would be breaking several international treaties, and the United Nations would have kicked us out of several of the committees we were on at the time.

Now that Bush has invaded Iraq and all them places. We have now broken those treaties and we are no longer on several very important committees in the United Nations!

So what are u saying that u support terrorism and that we should just keep the treaties and let them keep killing our people? I think that Bush did something that Clinton was too caught up in other things to do.(LIke the lewinski issue) If he would have been paying more attention to things instead of just waiting it out and giving more time to them to restructure, the we wouldnt have had 9/11. Sorry Clinton is a wus and will always be. Hillary runs that family.:D

No Opinion

Iceman=BOW= - 9-23-2003 at 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by syphon
main fact is that Bush should never have been made president and from the outcome of these wars hes got himself into to me is proof why he should never have got to be president, if he was indeed awesome then he wouldnt have had to cheat to get into government in the first place, hes not awesome, hes a pathetic loser who does things to make his daddy proud and he wants to go down in history as a great man who sorted out terrorism, but he'll only go down in history as a cheat, a rogue, and a war mongerer.

These are the kind of things that shouldnt be said. He is the US president, not the queen of england. If you dont live here and pay ur taxes then u shouldnt be complaining. You didnt have to go thru the 9/11 thing we did. So we will do whatever to take care of our own.

GET OUT

Iceman=BOW= - 9-23-2003 at 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by payper_boy
I hate this country....hell, i hate it with a passion...all the BS and crap we've done, thinking we are the best country in the world just because i can say that bush is an ignorant fool, just like all the other presidents. This country is like every other one out there, just we bent the rules a bit. Take this for an example: We are the land of life, liberty, and property. Freedom. If that was true, whats with the police anyway? Now, i know we do need some kind of protection for the innocent people, but not so bad as that people (bounty hunters) dont even need to be police or CIA or whatever and can storm a house with a 10 gauge shotgun for no reason at all, leaving whoever shaken and frigtened. I'm not anti-american, i just dont like this country because it thinks its better than others.

Well then tell ya what U can leave anytime that u want. Go, get out, we dont want people like u here anyway. Dont see anyone holding ya down.

GOOD

Iceman=BOW= - 9-23-2003 at 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Mirage
I left, and I'm never going back (except maybe to visit my sister)... But I'd never live there again.

ONe down a few more to go. Hope that u never come back.

GORE

Iceman=BOW= - 9-23-2003 at 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by *58th*Blitz
I am anit-Bush, but I also do not like Al Gore, but in the case of the presidency, I think that Al Gore would have been the lesser of two evils so to speak. Anyways, I think this post thread is starting to get a little out of hand. Things need to cool down a bit.

He was also in clintons adiminstration that tried to cover up the lewinski scandal, so lesser of two evils.....not.